years. donald trump has walked into a courtroom surrounded by uniformed members of law enforcement. he's in a courthouse where other people are coming into courtrooms from custody. he is seeing what his future looks like upon conviction here. it's a very sobering moment for donald trump. you can see it in the sleepless lines on his face. >> joyce vase, dave aronberg, charles coleman, thank you all very much for coming on this morning. i have a feeling we'll be talking a lot in the weeks to come. that does it form us this morning. we'll see you tomorrow morning at 6:00 a.m. eastern. ana cabrera and jose diaz-balart pick up the coverage right now. good morning and thank you for joining us. it is 10:00 eastern. i'm ana cabrera reporting alongside jose diaz-balart with our special coverage as history

is made this morning in a new york courthouse. donald trump will be the first former president and presumptive presidential nominee to face a criminal trial arriving just minutes ago for the start of jury selection in the new york hush money cases. >> he faces 34 felony counts of falsifying business records to cover up a hush money payment to adult film actress stormy daniels in the run-up to the 2016 president election. the focus of the trial today, choosing the men and women who will decide this case from a pool of thousands. we have a team inside the courthouse watching it all as it unfolds. >> we have a team as well with us right now to talk you through it. nbc's vaughn hillyard is standing by outside the courthouse. also with us chuck rosenberg, former u.s. attorney and senior fib official. maya wiley a former u.s. district attorney. williams who is a former prosecutor. thank you all for being part of

our coverage. vaughn, let's start there at the courthouse. walk us through what we can expect today and the former president's demeanor so far on day one. >> reporter: judge merchan entered the courtroom in the last two minutes. this is a moment when donald trump along with the rest of the courtroom all stood. we have officially begun the first criminal trial of a former president of the united states. donald trump is facing 34 felony counts for falsifying business records stemming from the michael cohen payment to stormy daniels for $130,000 in which donald trump through the course of 2017 reimbursed him for those funds. right now the jury selection is going to begin, but we expect initial points of discussion to commence first. that could very well include discussion over the gag order and the extent to which donald trump may have violated that over the last week. donald trump was sitting for

about a half hour inside this courtroom before it officially began. so far we're running about a half hour late at this point. of course, we're looking at jury selection that could very well begin and take a matter of weeks here, as some 6,000 new yorkers have been summoned just this week alone to the manhattan criminal court system. defense and prosecution will have the opportunity to ask questions. we're looking at a questionnaire of 42 questions stemming from everything from what news sites they read and watch to where anyone has attended a trump rally. you see donald trump leaving and entering the courtroom. i want to let you listen to a quick moment of him addressing the cameras. >> nothing like this has ever happened before. there's never been anything like it. >> reporter: this is the scene guys where a vehicle having trump flags just came out.

we saw about 20 protesters who blocked off the road for a few minutes. the security around here is a tight perimeter. we're in lower manhattan, to give you an idea of the geographic location of where this criminal trial is taking place, we're one block away from 60 center street which is where donald trump sat in on his civil fraud trial against him and the trump organization. so lower manhattan, donald trump has spent a lot of time here despite moving to florida just in the last few years, it's new york that has brought him home for these pivotal trials here ahead of his president election. >> indeed these pivotal trials. chuck, as we've said, no one in the united states has seen anything like this. what's on your mind and top of mind as this first day starts? >> do i only get to pick one thing? >> how about what are the things top of mind? >> i may have been spoiled as a federal prosecutor in the eastern district of virginia where jury selection went very, very fast, 30 minutes, 45 minutes tops.

for me this is fascinating. not only is there a questionnaire which we didn't use, but the lawyers themselves get to question the individual jurors which we were not permitted to do. one thing i'll be watching for is how judge merchan controls his courtroom. the defense attorneys here have an unlimited number of strikes for cause, as do the prosecutors. how many of these jurors will they find unacceptable and try to get rid of? how will judge merchan push back on that? how will he control his courtroom? do they start on time, end on time? one thing you have to keep in mind, you have to make this not just fair for both sides, but you also have to make it fair for the jurors. >> maya, let's talk about the

legal theory these jurors will be asked to consider and to judge whether or not this former president is guilty or not. we know we've referred to it as a hush money case. that's kind of short for the broader picture here, and the d.a. is casting this as an election interference case. how do you see it? what do we need to know? >> the first and most important thing we need to know, it's not just that the district attorney is calling it that, it's that the judge himself has said he is going to say to the jury that count one includes the question of whether this was being done to conceal information and, therefore, it's an election interference case. the jury is going to hear that from the judge. now, the judge is not going to say whether or not that's true or not, but this case is being cast explicit bibi the prosecution and for the judge to the jury as fundamentally not

just did he falsify records which obviously has to be proven and will be, no question about that. but was it to conceal from voters the fact that he had these affairs and to prevent them from coming out because it would damage him? at the end of the day, central to this case is the -- i think there's evidence that corroborates michael cohen, but are the jurors going to believe michael cohen and that corroborating evidence, that it's there. that's when to chuck's point about the length and controlling the courtroom, the most important people in that room are the people of the city of new york. the most important people in that room are the people in that jury box who will ultimately be selected for that jury. the most important people in that room are going to be the ones that will say we're going to decide whether we believe the evidence or not. >> temidayo, what evidence is

presented in the different aspects and the trial of this case. what are the biggest challenges for the prosecution in this case? >> i think here it's going to be a question of credibility. you're putting these witnesses up that at times michael cohen, stormy daniels, who had previously said things that were not true, they made false statements in the past. if you're a defense lawyer, that's your first attack point. are you a liar then or are you a liar now? the burden is on the prosecutors. prosecutors have to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt. donald trump's lawyers can get up there and say they haven't made that case. i don't have to prove democrat is innocent. they have to prove that he's guilty. i think that's the attack point, that these witnesses are not credible. that's where corroboration comes in. that's where prosecutors say you don't have to just believe michael cohen. look at the documents, the audio recording. and that you'll find beyond a reasonable doubt that dprm is

guilty. >> let's go back outside to vaughn and get an update on what's happening right now as this trial kicks off. >> reporter: jury selection is supposed to begin here any minute. of course, that was today's order of business. but we did also expect, and this is now what is coming forward, are deliberations over some other pretrial kind of conversations here, one of those being the motion for judge merchan to recuse himself. of course, we have seen donald trump over the course of the last several weeks continually call into question judge merchan's ability to fairly judge this case, namely because of his daughter's affiliation and past work with a firm that had done business on behalf of joe biden. now, judge merchan, as we're getting notes from inside the courthouse right now, is fiercely pushing back against that, calling it an unfair innuendo saying, quote, it is the opinion of this court based on innuendo and speculation about aa member of the court's family, the defendant has failed

to provide evidence this court has direct personal or substantial interest. there is no basis for recusal. judge merchan defiantly said. this is a part of the motion that we heard last week. trump's legal team had taken this to an appellate court and had been shot down. judge merchan is standing by the decision that he will, in fact, continue to oversee this case. we saw multiple attempts by donald trump to try to delay this case and call in question the integrity of the court here. we expect other points of conversation to be taking place before jury selection begins. one of those conversations also expected to take place is over the gag order and the extent to which donald trump may have violated it with two particular social media posts over the last week, but we have yet to get to that conversation. that could happen any minute, guys. >> thank you, vaughn. please keep us posted. i do want to note on the issue about the judge's recusal that

was requested to trump's team, this is something that dates back to last summer when that was first brought up. the judge in this case went to the state court's ethics board and they basically gave him the green light. he also came back and said on the record, this court has examined its conscience and is certain in its ability to be fair and impartial. so this is an argument that the trump team has tried to make over and over and over again to no avail. >> just seconds ago, merchan was very clear and he said, among other things, for these reasons the defendant's second motion for recusal is denied and the court will not address this matter further. >> caroline, what is he trying to do here, do you think? >> merchan is sort of bullet-proofing his record on appeal. this is a renewed motion. there wasn't much new evidence coming forth. that's sort of the standard to make it again. he had gone to the ethics board. i think because he got that

go-ahead from the ethics board, he has an ethical obligation not to recuse himself and to continue presiding over this case. this is nothing new. trump has tried to get other judges and other cases recused for far less than what we've seen here with judge merchan. it's not going to work. the defense team is ticking off their appellate issues. >> caroline, let's talk about some of the witnesses, because there are pretty big ones in here, stormy daniels, karen mcdougal, david pecker, hope hicks and, of course, michael cohen. we've actually been hearing from cohen over and over again, as frequently as just over the weekend. this is what he had to say over the weekend. >> if it was you in this specific case, we'll call it the campaign finance violation case as opposed to the hush money case, though the president and the porn star certainly has a

better television ring than campaign finance violation. >> a lifetime movie for sure. >> you would be already charged, the case would have already taken place and you would be incarcerated. >> do you agree with that? is this a good thing for the prosecution as they prep their possible witnesses? >> no. i was going to say, first of all, if i'm alvin bragg's office, i'm appalled and saying what can we do to rein this guy in. it's so inappropriate, highly wrong for a potential witness to be -- he's promoting kind of like he's starring in an upcoming film. it's not a good look for alvin bragg's office. you never want your witnesses to talk like that. i read a "new yorker" piece, line the seinfeld finale where every character from trump world gets to come and have their say at the end of this. we are seeing people come back

into our conscious. hope hicks, the cast of characters giving their gloss on the situation. at the end of the day, honestly, jose, i think this is a documents case. the proof is in the pudding, and really documents don't lie. we're talking about the credibility issues with cohen. there are tape-recordings. there are documents. those things are difficult to rebut at trial. so i think that's really -- those are going to be the stars of the show. >> stay with us. we're really just getting started. so much more to dissect and discuss as we continue this special coverage. coming up, picking the jury for this trial, something donald trump is calling, quote, largely luck. is he right? we'll talk to a jury selection expert. >> stormy daniels, michael cohen, hope hicks, the key witnesses we could see on the stand. we'll talk to former nypd commissioner bill bratton.

much more special coverage when we're back in just 60 seconds. .

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ask your provider for cologuard. ♪ i did it my way ♪ coverage as jury selection begins this morning in donald trump's new york hush money trial. this process to find 12 jurors and six alternates begins with 1,500 potential jurors arriving today. >> and they'll have to answer a questionnaire with some 42 questions touching on everything from political views to media habits. joining us now, msnbc's yasmin vossoughian outside the

courthouse. also richard gab well, president of the trial consulting firm decision analysis and author of the book "acquittal." yasmin, what do we know about potential jurors and the questions they're facing this morning? >> reporter: it's interesting that you guys were talking about this now because judge merchan is actually going through some of the questions that are still in question, i should say, in this juror questionnaire. there was question number 29 in this questionnaire which asks, have you ever attended a rally or campaign event for donald trump? have you, a relative or close friend ever worked or volunteered for the trump presidential campaign, the trump presidential administration or any other political entity affiliated with mr. trump. it seems as if there's a question to modify that particular question. i do, jose and ana, want to go through some of the questions they'll be asking the potential jurors. 1,500 showing up in the courthouse behind me today in

this history-in-the-making trial. for instance, which of the following print publications, network or cable programs do you get your news? we're on the list, cnn, google as well. it's honing in on the potential political affiliations, do you currently follow drum on social media or have you done so in the past? have you ever attended a rally or campaign event for any anti-trump organization? are you signed up or ever been subscribed to or followed any email list run by any anti-trump organization. also the question talking about any affiliations with qanon, proud boys, oath keepers as well. there is a question as to whether or not they're trying to not politicize this jury selection moment, right, but

still hone in on the political affiliation of these jurors. i only say this because i think back to judge kaplan in the e. jean carroll defamation case in which they specifically asked, do you feel as if the 2020 election was stolen? that question is not in this juror questionnaire. this jury selection process, guys, could potentially take up to two weeks. >> yasmin, thank you. we'll check back. richard, you have been a consultant for picking juries on several high-profile cases from o.j. simpson to casey anthony. for this case we know 6,000 potential jurors have been summoned, 2,000 more than typical. the court is looking for that perfect 12. if you were trump's legal time. >> for some reason, i lost the audio here. >> if you were alvin bragg, who would you be looking for?

>> they're bringing in a lot of jurors in which they're going to be excising a great number of jurors. i think both sides are looking for those hidden agenda jurors. obviously people who have very strong opinions about donald trump one way or the other are going to be excised out of this, probably because their ofs are too strong. you're supposed to have an impartial jury go into the process. i think alvin bragg is looking for someone who doesn't have a hidden agenda, who will be able to evaluate the evidence and make the direct connection between the documents, the payments and the interference of an election. this is a fairly unique legal theory. he needs jurors to make that connection. >> trump's legal team has argued the court cannot seat a fair jury in manhattan. trump got 12% of the vote in manhattan in 2020. four years before that, he got 10%. richard, how hard will it be to get a fair and impartial jury in

manhattan? >> well, it's going to be difficult. impartiality typically means somebody who doesn't know much about the case. everybody knows about donald trump, everybody knows even about this case. jurors in manhattan have a long history with donald trump himself. they carry a lot of baggage. the key element here really is talking to jurors, finding out how they feel about him. some people have very good feelings about him as well. it's how strong is their feelings. something remarkable does happen after you pick a jury. when jurors sit together in a group of 12, a group of diverse citizens, they are able to parse through evidence and concentrate on their jobs. it's about sort of eliminating people on the edges, finding out people who are truly open to really listening to the evidence and have that critical ability to understand either their own biases as well as be able to

work with other jurors. that's going to be key. >> richard, do you expect people would want to be on this jury? what kind of red flags will the lawyers and the judge be looking for? >> i think some jurors absolutely will not want to be on this jury. the pressure -- there's been threats against all kinds of people involved in this case. some people will say i don't want to deal with that kind of pressure. there are jurors who will want to be, just for the fascination, sensationalism. obviously the red flags that i sometimes look for are people who sometimes answer, i can be fair and impartial, i can evaluate the evidence. there's something about the wavering answering questions that shows a type of eager innocence to be on the jury. most jurors don't like to be on juries. some people can telegraph a little hidden sglnd yasmin,

what's going on at the courthouse? >> reporter: sorry, jose. i missed your question. we are going through the scheduling right now when it comes to this trial. again, expected to take four to six weeks or so. days requested off, may 17th for baron's high school graduation, also june 3rd to allow a member of the defense team to attend their son's graduation. judge merchan said, i cannot rule on those dates at this time. it depends on how the trial is, in fact, going. i also want to address the passover holiday, we had expected for the court to be off during the passover holiday. members of the defense team asked for two days at the beginning of passover and two days at the end of passover to have court not be in session. judge merchan has not granted those days off as of yet. he said, if it interferes with one of the jurors wanting to celebrate the holiday, observe

the holiday, he will address it then. as of now, it seems april 22nd, 23rd and april 29th and 30th, the court will adjourn at 2:00 p.m. eastern standard time. again, they're just kind of going through the scheduling right now, some of the details beginning the jury selection process. one more thing i do want to mention, there was a motion in place to adjust the jury questionnaire, wanting the prosecution and the defense to hone in on the political affiliations of these potential jurors, those motions, guys, were totally denied. this jury questionnaire that we have in our hands, that stays in place. >> okay. again, as you outlined that jury questionnaire has some very, very specific questions that can get at people's political affiliation and their love or hate for the defendant. yasmin vossoughian, stay close. richard gabriel, thank you for offering your expertise and insights. up next, all the former

president's men and women from former fixer michael cohen, adult film actress stormy daniels, the key players in donald trump's hush money trial. >> you're watching special coverage of donald trump's first criminal trial only on msnbc. ♪♪ some people just know that the best rate for you is a rate based on you, with allstate. because there's a right way to. stop! and the speed limit definitely isn't.

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the jurors will hear allegations against trump dating back to the 2016 election from an entering list of potential witnesses. >> they include stormy daniels, karen mcdougal, hope hicks, david pecker, michael cohen. back to discuss, chuck rosenberg, maya wiley and temidayo aganga-williams. kim parker has written a profile of manhattan district attorney alvin bragg. chuck, we pointed out a long list of potential witnesses at least for the prosecution. who are you most curious about their testimony? >> well, they all have different roles, obviously, but this is a case that turns largely, as maya said earlier, ana, on documents. each of these witnesses will corroborate some part of the transaction. often prosecutors, and i was one for a long time, put things in linearly, in order.

you start at the beginning and tell the story until it ends. stormy daniels and karen mcdougal are important to the beginning. they explain why this thing happened. you don't have to prove motive as a prosecutor, but they help explain the motive. >> do they have to prove intent? >> they absolutely have to prove intent, but intent and motive are two different things. let's say you robbed a bank, not that you ever would. why you robbed the bank is not something i have to prove. you may have done it to feed your family, to pay off gambling debts. your motive in robbing the bank, it's nice if i have it. in this case they do have it, so they can adduce it. you can't commit a crime by accident for negligence. it has to be something that you've done purposefully. >> sotemidayo, what do you do

if you have a witness like trump who has credibility issues? i guess it happens in every trial, you have people -- >> it happens all the time. prosecutors are very well equipped to handle this. you say the government didn't pick him, donald trump picked him. if you're picking a man to cover up your crime, to basically join a conspiracy with you, you don't pick a nun, you pick perhaps someone like michael cohen. that could be flipped to the government's advantage to explain why this person could have credibility issues and why this person could not be a saint. it comes back to corroboration. the government is not putting michael cohen up by himself. the government may not be showing or shouldn't be showing michael cohen their other evidence. when he tells his narrative, another witness is going to come up and tell their narrative. those folks ideally have not been talking. the jury can say we're getting the same story from different

perspectives and it's all corroborated. >> kim, i want to bring you into this conversation and talk about the district attorney here, you and your colleagues interviewed more than 70 people for this new piece in "the new york times" magazine. you right how a nerdy prosecutor became the first to try trump. some people who know him well expressed surprise to see him bringing this case and being perceived the way he has by so much of the public and how he's been sort of cast. explain why that is, why they're surprised. >> i don't think they're surprised he brought this particular case. i think they're surprised he found himself in the middle of this media firestorm and how he's portrayed. as a very ideological prosecutors who was gunning for trump from the very beginning, who wanted to bring this case for political reasons. they know bragg from college, from high school, from junior high as this guy who was always the conciliator, the

compromiser, who always tried to find the middle ground between warring parties. he was particularly phone for that at harvard, bringing together different groups who didn't like each other, playing basketball, things like that. they're surprised seeing him being portrayed in this way. they're surprised, also, when he ran for office because he wasn't seen as a typical politician. >> were you surprised by anything when you were doing the research? >> i mean, you know, usually when somebody tries to go on background or off the record you think they're going to tell you something juicy as a journalist. i don't like to go off the record. you think you're going to get a secret. i would have people going on background about alvin bragg about what a great guy he was. you want them to say it on the record. it was because of their positions they couldn't do that. a lot of bragg's friends from college and law school have risen to high positions in

various places. >> maya, your take on what you expect to see from alvin bragg? >> we'll see a very competent, very established, very experienced lawyer, but legal team. it is a team, and that's important to remember, including the late prosecutor who actually indicted the trump organizations and got them convicted. even businesses of donald trump are fraudsters. i want to go back to the witness question really quickly, to chuck's important point about the evidence. the witness we're not talking about is time. time is a silent witness, but such an important part of this documents case is the timing. the intent -- and it's circumstantial evidence, and that is still evidence, that rational people who are unbiased and are going to hear, nobody is going to take the stand. trump is not going to take the

stand and say i was trying to protect melania. in the time stamps, the meetings with pecker, that's a witness and it's a powerful one. >> the time stamp, too, of the payments coming after the "access hollywood" tape dropped, and that firestorm it created leading into the vote in the 2016 election. everybody, thank you so much. stay close. kim barker, "how alvin bragg hitched his fate to trump." i want to bring back vaughn hillyard at the courthouse. what's happening right now as it comes to the inside the courtroom preparation for jury selection to begin? >> reporter: we're not at jury selection yet. there's a name that has been currently discussed over the last ten minutes inside the courtroom between prosecutors, donald trump's defense attorney todd blanche. that name we will continue to

come back to is david pecker, the former ceo of american media, which is the parent company of the "national enquirer." what the back and forth was over was over the prosecution's questions about potential evidence they could bring before a jury. in that evidence, it ties directly back to david pecker. in the august 2015 meeting at trump tower between michael cohen, david pecker and donald trump over the potential plan to not only have catch-and-kill stories to help benefit donald trump and his political campaign, but also they were pointing to evidence that the prosecution wanted to present tied to negative stories about donald trump's primary rivals, including ben carson, marco rubio. folks may recall salacious headlines about alleged infidelity of ted cruz that the "national enquirer" published. inside that courtroom, they showed -- with no jurors or potential jurors, they showed

some of the headlines and some of this evidence that they would like to bring forward to establish the case that donald trump had ill intent that led to him writing those reimbursement checks to michael cohen knowing what he was agreeing to. judge merchan, despite the dispute of todd blanche, donald trump's attorney, said he will allow that evidence directly tied to pecker's meeting at the meeting in 2015 and brought before the jury. some of these pretrial conversations are happening in realtime before the jury selection begins inside. >> vaughn hillyard, thank you very much. next, cameras, protests, police. new york city bracing for what could be the trial of a lifetime. >> we'll get insight from former nypd commissioner bill bratton on the intense security after a short break. stay right there. ort break. stay right there if you have chronic kidney disease you can reduce the risk of kidney failure with farxiga.

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alleged to have had an affair with donald trump for the better part of a year. her story was bought for $150,000. judge merchan did just make the decision that, in fact, karen mcdougal's story can come before the jury. the one part that cannot be brought up before the jurors is the fact that the allegation is that that affair took place while melania trump was pregnant with baron. that will not be admissible. the other thing we're watching in real time is the extent to which the "access hollywood" tape is able to be entered in as evidence. there's current discussion over whether the actual tape could be played for the jury. at this point in time, a compromise that judge merchan had agreed on was the ability for the tape to be brought up in testimony and for individuals to talk about what was said in the tape, but not actually play the tape. we are waiting for donald

trump's legal team to push back against the access hood tape being able to be entered as evidence in its entirety. we expect to hear at any moment, judge merchan to make the determination of the extent that it will be played for the jury. that comes down to intent difficult donald trump and what he knew about relationships and the alleged affairs that led to him reimbursing michael cohen for these types of stories he did not want to get out into the public before the 2016 election. >> vaughn hillyard, let's continue our conversation, of course. this is happening as we speak. thank you, vaughn. >> this is an historic event like no other. new york city bracing for the first ever criminal trial against a former president with the nypd preparing for protests which we're already seeing. there are street closures in place. there will be, no doubt, many traffic jams and potential threats. >> i want to bring in former

nypd commissioner bill bratton. his new book "the profession, a memoir of policing in america." thank you for being with us this morning. what's the scale of security preparations for today and for the next six, eight weeks of this trial? >> you might expect the scale is very, very significant. we get a preview of this event a month or so ago at the arraignment. they had a teaser, if you will. there's no department in the world that's more capable than dealing with these events than the nypd. secret service will have responsibility to protect the former president. and this is not the first rodeo at this courthouse. the court officers are very familiar with security procedures for high-profile defendants. >> new york routinely handles parades, presidential visits, un

meetings. how do the security needs for this compare? >> well, effectively it is a unique one in the sense the first time a president has been put on trial, but other than that, these are things that the department has gone through time and again. it's a very large department, has a huge intelligence bureau. the intelligence bureau will be watching very closely, monitoring social media for anticipated demonstrations, any threats that might be made against anybody that's involved in this trial, whether it's witnesses, the president himself. the effort that's gone into the preparation for this has been extraordinary certainly, but it will continue throughout the duration of the trial. witnesses will have to be guided into the courthouse. where do they need to get come into the courthouse? how do they get screened coming in? it's a very complex operation

but something that these three agencies are very good at doing. >> commissioner, donald trump on friday sent out a fund-raising email saying, quote, "72 hours until all hell breaks loose." we can think of the things he's said in the past that have caused some real problems. are you concerned at all about any violence outside the court in the next couple days and weeks? >> the security forces will certainly be mindful of that potential. i think of all hell breaking loose, largely inside the president's own head. he's calling effectively for demonstrations. not much going on down there in the way of demonstrations, at least as of this morning. not much going on during the arraignment process a month or so ago. the department, particularly the nypd which is responsible for the street issues in and around the courthouse are geared up to deal with any type of demonstration, whether it's a threat of violence, whether a demonstration gets out of control, traffic blockage, and

certainly in the city today and around the world for that matter is a significant number of events that are associated with the hamas-israel dispute and having to deal with that. i wouldn't be surprised to see some of that showing up in the vicinity of the courthouse with all the cameras down there, those demonstrators looking to get a part of that action. >> former new york city police commissioner bill bratton, great to have you with us. thank you for highlighting the security situation. next, the campaign trail, the courtroom colliding. the nation has never seen something like this before. >> so how is donald trump going to campaign for the white house when he's due in court every day? more special coverage when we're back after a short break. stay right there. short break stay right there

50 past the hour. former president trump has blasted the timing of the hush money case. trump is legally required to attend every day of this criminal trial. >> so that means instead of holding rallies and campaign events the presumptive republican nominee will be sitting at the defense table every day that court is in session for at least what's been estimated to be the next six weeks of trial. >> joining us now basil smikle and susan del percio. we're seven months out of election day. this trial could take, you know, weeks, up to six weeks, maybe even more. he has to be in the courtroom

every day of this trial. what kind of an impact is that going to have on the campaign? >> he'll still have his press conferences and that way he'll have a rally every day, if you will, when he's leaving the courthouse. i don't know if they're going to let him be there during break, lunch break, for example, but the thing i'm really watching while he's in trial is how -- like after the first two or three days of him having to be there 9:30 in the morning, not leaving until 5:00, and again, let me stress having to be there, no control over his schedule. i want to know how the blowups are going to go. the temperament is going to go off the rails by next week, and it will be that how it's reported outside of the courtroom and his own -- in his own news conferences. i think that's going to add a lot to the campaign in totality of showing who he is. >> a lot of people would argue people know who he is. he shows them every day he's

having, you know, these outbursts on social media. he is certainly saying what's on his mind when he goes to campaign events. he'll be in the courtroom. so what do democrats do? how do his opponents try to utilize this time? >> the split screen will be donald trump in a courtroom, joe biden on a campaign trail. i think that's a very important juxtaposition. you'll see joe biden going and talking to voters. you've seen him starting to move the campaign from big rallies to tiktok so that he can identify more closely with the average american. i think you'll see that. i do think in some ways you will see democrats writ large sort of campaign against what donald trump is -- why he's on trial and being able to hold him accountable. to susan's point, it will be really interesting to see how donald trump campaigns from the courthouse. he's been doing this that. he will continue to do that. he'll raise money from that. that temperament piece is really important. if he starts lashing out, i'm curious to see not only how republicans deal with that but

certainly democrats will use that to say this is the guy you want to elect? let's think about something else. let's go in another direction. >> democrats will show especially that president biden will send a jab when or if or when appropriate, but don't look for a whole campaign on the campaign to move to this issue at all. >> but at the same time, i mean, president biden has been very careful not to give any impression that he's trying to put his hand on the scale of justice, right? so is it a fine line for him to walk? >> critical balance, right, because you want to talk about issues. that's what the voters want to hear. you want to talk about the economy, inflation's ticked up a little bit. you want to focus on that, focus on everybody's economic aspirations. continue to hit on reproductive rights because we can see that that across the country now in a state like arizona is mobilizing voters. so hit on all of those issues. to try, to susan's point, to sort of make donald trump's

trials the campaign, it just distracts from what voters -- >> you could play on democracy. that's the one thing you can play on. >> and on the other hand, this does set a stage, very -- i don't think the president has to say anything, just where is the person running against me? he's in a courthouse in manhattan. you know, he doesn't need to say that. a lot of the oxygen is that, right? so -- but interesting because, susan, new polling came out over the weekend showing the majority of americans think these charges are serious. a poll released about two weeks agoing shows trump's support among republicans softens when asked how they will vote if he's found guilty in this case. is this something that maybe not today but one weekend, two weeks in, five weeks in could have an impact on those republicans who say, you know what? this is not something i want to support. >> or even independent voters too. >> i always look at the center right voters or the republicans that didn't support donald trump

in 2020 especially. they're willing to look at the totality of the situation and vote for -- they were willing to vote for joe biden in 2020 and in a lot of ways, i think to your point, jose, biden will be able to get a lot of those voters back, especially if he's -- if trump is convicted on any of those charges. again, is he going to be flipping lots of republicans left and right? no, but he'll flip the ones he needs. >> and i'll just say very quickly, alvin bragg, who i know center of the storm here, but this is a path towards accountability and i just wanted to put that out there. >> always appreciate you two joining us. thank you so much for the conversation. >> great seeing you both. i want to go back to vaughn hillyard who is outside the courthouse. vaughn, what's the latest? >> reporter: we were talking about just a few moments ago, guys, about the deliberations inside the courtroom between the prosecutors, the defense and the judge over the extent to which the access hollywood tape would

be admissible as evidence in front of the jury, and judge merchan just ruled that the prosecution may use a transcript of the access hollywood tape but not actually play the tape, the video or the audio inside of the courtroom. of course todd blanche is pushing back against each of these pieces of evidence that the prosecution wants to bring forward calling it a side show. another issue was over the e. jean carroll deposition video in which robbie kaplan, the attorney for donald trump in a deposition with the former president specifically asked him about that access hollywood tape and asked him if stars were actually -- if he actually felt that stars were able to grab women by their private parts and donald trump responded, quote, historically that's true with stars. if you look over the last millions of years, that's largely true, unfortunately or fortunately robbie kaplan in that deposition asked trump whether he sees himself as a star, and he said yes. the prosecution wanted to bring forward that deposition tape of

trump as part of the intent to show the jury that donald trump had a history of -- that he could sexually assault other women, and the judge, judge merchan ruled that that tape is not able to be actually presented in front of the jury as evidence. we are continuing to go through more pieces that the prosecution would like to bring forward and the judge continues to make decisions after todd blanche, donald trump's legal attorney is able to follow up on the prosecutor's efforts. >> again, we have no court camera that we are able to watch, but we do have our reporters who are watching closely inside the courthouse. vaughn, thank you for bringing it out to us and our viewers. stay close. coming up in our next hour of our special coverage, a presidential historian will join us on this moment for our country. the first criminal are trial of a former president. plus, a legal collision course, how trump's hush money trial will impact his other cases as we speed towards

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welcome back, it is 11:00 a.m. eastern, 8:00 a.m. pacific, i'm josé diaz-balart alongside my colleague and friend ana cabrera. historic day unfolding right now here in manhattan. for the very first time a criminal trial of a former u.s. president, donald trump, also happens to be the presumptive presidential nominee. >> any moment now jury selection will begin around this trial centered around hush money payment thes made to an adult film actress stormy daniels. prosecutors say this was part of an effort to prevent the public from learning about trump's alleged sexual encounter with daniels days before the 2016 election. the d.a. in this case calling it election interference.

now, trump has pleaded not guilty to all 34 counts of falsifying business records and he denies that an affair ever happened. >> so far in court, there has been this back and forth over evidence and can be included, what cannot be included in the trial, incling the infamous access hollywood tape. >> here to help break it down, yasmin vossoughian, chuck rosenberg, maya wiley, civil right attorneys and a former assistant u.s. attorney, temidayo williams, former investigative council, also a former federal prosecutor, and caroline polisi, a federal and white collar criminal defense attorney. yasmin, take us to the courthouse. what's been happening? >> reporter: excuse me looking down, i have my ipad in front of me. i want to keep an eye on what's happening inside the courtroom. that's our only way of getting a real look as to what's happening in there. it's all about the admission of

certain evidence and some of the testimony of the witnesses we've seen on this list. let's take you through the potential evidence that they're asking for. there's some headlines that were published by the national inquirer back in 2016. they want to establish a relationship between the former head of ami, david pecker and donald trump along with michael cohen and a meeting that went on at trump tower, and they want to establish that these headlines were passed through both donald trump and michael cohen before they were published in national inquirer. they want to make sure that evidence is, in fact, submitted. they're talking about potential testimony from karen mcdougal. they say they're not going to get into the salacious details of what happened between donald trump and karen mcdougal, but they want to establish that donald trump had a one year long relationship with karen mcdougal while melania trump was pregnant with their child. they're going to talk about dino sajudan who was a doorman

and his testimony as to what he saw during that time. they're also talking about the admission of tweets that were sent out by donald trump while michael cohen was under investigation, the admission of those tweets as well. so there's a lot of back and forth going on between both steinglass who is the attorney for the prosecution, todd blanche, the attorney for donald trump along with judge juan merchan. we're watching what's happening in the courtroom right now, and again, merchan usually is kind of weighing in as to what is admissible and what is not admissible after all of the evidence is laid out. one more thing that i do want to talk about, which is the access hollywood tape. the transcript of the access hollywood tape will be admissible. however, they will not play the access hollywood tape, guys. >> okay, yasmin, thank you. stand by, maya, what do you make of what's happening this morning? >> so far i make that the people

of the state of new york are doing quite well in these hearings. that's the way i read it. >> what do you mean? >> this is evidence -- remember, we talked about this earlier, their job here is that they have to establish beyond a reasonable doubt that donald trump's intent was to keep from the voters of this country information about these affairs, the intent being the primary issue, right? the business records are going to help establish that. we talked about time is a witness, the proximity to access hollywood. we're hearing about hope hicks, kellyanne conway, the fact that they may be -- one of the things i saw in the tweets of someone in the courtroom, normalizen, they were going to help establish that the state of mind of donald trump and the campaign was that this was damaging to them. this is in the same proximity of time that they're doing the catch and kill scheme that is underlying what jurors are going to hear about in terms of why

business records were falsified. but we're also hearing the fact that they're going to hear the transcript of the tape to reinforce, look, this is what was going on including in donald trump's mind when he was making these decisions, signing these -- agreeing that he would sign these checks with a michael cohen with whom he did not have a retainer agreement but claimed that that's what they were paying. and that it was the trump organization paying part of this, that's what -- they don't have to prove that the underlying campaign finance crime was committed, but it goes to his intent that he was trying to conceal, and that's a keyword in this indictment, and this is all evidence that's going to help the people of the state of new york build that case. >> i'd just like to ask a quick follow-up question and, chuck, let me have you weigh in on this. if they don't -- why don't they have to prove that underlying crime that has been alleged here, when it comes to these being felonies.

so we have, you know, the falsifying business records, which trump has been charged with, which is -- are misdemeanors technically here in new york. it's that secondary crime that he alleges they were trying to cover up by falsifying these records that make it felonies. >> that's right, so the underlying crime is the falsification of business records. they have to prove each of those elements and to maya's point by proof beyond a reasonable doubt. in order to take those underlying crimes, the falsification of business records and turn them into felonies, they have to show that the falsification was done for some other reason. the other reasons here include violations of state and federal election law. so they're not being charged with those other crimes. they're only being charged, trump is only being charged with the falsification of business records. i hope that makes sense. this is something that, you know, lawyers will get but i mean, i think about my sisters

who watch msnbc all day long and i have to explain to them, again, after i get off because it's not apparent, to non-lawyers, underlying crime, falsification of records, secondary crime. the thing you were also trying to commit, a violation of state and federal election law, you don't have to prove its elements in the same way. >> for us that aren't lawyers, -- and hello to your sisters. >> they're going to appreciate it. >> we appreciate it as well. all of the issues of the tape whether it's going to be accepted or admitted as evidence versus a transcript of it, haven't a lot of these things already been discussed and decided beforehand? today is the day when we begin the process of finding jurors. is this what normally happens? >> so it does normally happen. ideally before you get to the trial date you file a motion in

limine. so this case moves on quickly. if you're the prosecution or the defense, you want certain things handled earlier so it's not coming up the ta of or in the middle of trial. you don't want to have a massive argument over whether or not a key piece of evidence is admissible. so it is normal to handle before. now, this may seem like it's moving slowly because we're all pretty amped up, but this is pretty normal, and it's going to happen throughout the are trial. things come up, things change, and when i've done trials, you get up there, and at the end of the day, the judge will ask in addition anything else to talk about? and you may say this other witness i have this issue. and two weeks from now we think this piece of evidence might look different. this is normal, we're going to see more of it when the judge outside the presence of the jury is going to be dealing with legal questions. >> i'm getting word they are discussing the gag order right now in the courtroom. let's go back to yasmin vossoughian to get an update,

yasmin, fill us in. >> reporter: yeah, a couple of things, guys, that i wanted to mention. i want to go back to what maya was talking about a little bit earlier. i want to talk a little bit about how it's being seen as the defense and trump team also getting a little bit of a win with not allowing the playing of that access hollywood tape along with the e. jean carroll deposition also not being able to be admitted as evidence. those are two key things to keep in mind. todd blanche along with donald trump are seeing those two things as a win today, and then also the admission, as i mentioned earlier, of the michael cohen tweets. steinglass at one point says defendant efforted to dissuade witnesses to cooperate with law enforcement, the court said an offer of proof is required. there were communications with michael cohen as the evidence will show, and then he talks about some of the tweets that they want to be admissible in court saying this, they are hoping michael cohen -- this is a tweet from donald trump, during a time in which michael

cohen's apartment was being raided. they are hoping michael cohen will flip. i don't see michael doing that. sleep well tonight the, you have friends in high places. and they say michael cohen began to distance himself and he says the defendant switched gears and said if anyone is looking for a good lawyer, i strongly suggest you do not obtain the services of michael cohen. made up stories. steinglass goes on to say you should not prevent the jury from hearing these tweets now. this evidence now. and again, i just want to reiterate, right, we are 90 minutes into this thing, about an hour and 40 minutes at this point. we started half an hour late. this is supposed to be about jury selection. they are still going over what evidence here is admissible, guys. >> yasmin, what's going on with the gag order? >> so what i'm hearing when it comes to the gag order -- and i'm just looking through this -- go ahead, what are you seeing?

so my producer andy just passed me something, prosecutor joshua steinglass is now going after trump's recent attacks on potential witnesses suggesting that trump violated the limited gag order in the case, and he says this. the defendant himself has publicly embraced the public strategy of going after his per received eneenemies. there's going to be a lot of talk about this gag order as there was in the other trials that we have seen play out as well, and whether or not the former president is going to continue, by the way, to violate these gag orders and then what will happen subsequently. merchan has not necessarily weighed in on the case that's being presented by steinglass when it comes to those gag orders, as soon as he does i'm going to let you know. >> caroline, let's talk about that gag order and about the fact that the defendant here is just sending all kinds of information and allegations out as this trial begins. >> yeah, and interesting that he did it over the weekending, you

know, on the actual eve of trial. he had to know that that was going to take up some time this morning because obviously they would need to address this issue. the judge is in a tough spot here. no judge wants to be that person that is the one to throw former president donald trump in jail for criminal contempt. i personally just don't see that happening, but the judge's hands may be tied here. you know, we've seen previous judges issue these sort of escalating sanctions, monetary sanctions. >> but what options does the judge have? >> the first is a tongue lashing, which by any other standard any defendant would, you know, sort of shape up or ship out. and then you would have monetary sanctions and, yeah, there is an option of putting him in jail if there's no other recourse. he may be the one defendant that, you know, you just can't get to shut up besides, you

know, literally prying his phone away from him. but you know, these are really thorny issues and i don't envy judge merchan's position today. >> we will be watching to see how he handles this today after this discussion concludes, but let's talk more about the judge in this case, chuck. judge merchan has 17 years on the bench, and let me remind, everybody. he is the judge who handled the tax case involving the trump organization. that one in which the trump org was convicted. we saw weisselberg convicted and pleading guilty, ended up going to prison for five months in rikers. he got some credit for time served so wasn't technically behind bars for the entire duration of that. but based on judge merchan, how he handled this case, chuck, what do you expect to see from him and how he operates this courtroom? >> i've never appeared in front of him, ana, but i've appeared in front of lots of judges, and i can tell you some are very, very good at their jobs. some are not so good at their jobs, and in that sense, it's no different than plumbers and

dentists and airline pilots. if you lose two engines over the hudson, you want sully sullenberger in the cockpit, not somebody mediocre. judge merchan seems to be a good judge, a thoughtful judge, and to caroline's point, a patient judge in a difficult situation. there's one thing, though, that's bothering me a little bit about what i'm seeing so far. teb day owe was right, these issues come up all the time. i hate to see them come up when a jury's waiting. you have 1,500 people who are sitting around waiting for the lawyers and the judge to make decisions that could have been made last week or next week or when they're not sitting around waiting. but that aside -- and that bothers me a little bit -- i think he is a judge who manages his courtroom and manages it well. you know, you can see -- i've said often, ana, i don't think judge cannon, the federal judge in the southern district of florida is a biased judge.

i think she's a bad judge. i think she's an inexperienced judge, but i don't think she's biased. judge chutkan, on the other hand, the federal judge in the district of columbia seems to be moving her case when she has it in front of her with some degree of alacrity. there are different- you know, different judges are good at different things. judge merchan seems to be someone who can move things along, but we'll see. >> and we'll see with the pressures of having someone who is going off and saying all kinds of things what the judge does if there is a gag order there and he considers that gag order to be violated, what are the options and when you have this specific person that you deal with, your options, i think, may be a little bit more limited than in a regular trial. >> yeah, and caroline made that point exactly right. this may be, caroline, the only defendant who can get away with this stuff. >> yeah. >> everyone stay with us. a very important conversation that we're having this morning. coming up, the latest from trump's team as this criminal

trial kicks off. plus, a look at how all of this will or won't affect the 2024 election. and later we'll talk with a presidential historian about these unprecedented times. more after a quick break. times. more after a quick break nothing dims my light like a migraine. with nurtec odt, i found relief. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. breathing claritin clear is like... is he? claritin clear? yeah. fast relief of your worst allergy symptoms, like nasal congestion. live claritin clear®

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anything to say as jury selection is about to get underway. let's go live to that courthouse and our vaughn hillyard standing by. give us an update as to what happened before this break. vaughn. >> reporter: right, there are two pieces at play here, our colleague lisa rubin, who is inside that courtroom, she brings up the point that what the prosecution by presenting some of this evidence to the judge of what they want to be admitted as evidence before a jury, what they are revealing is that they want to prove to jurors that there is a consciousness of guilt on the part of donald trump, as part of a pressure campaign on michael cohen to not flip against him. of course it was only in january of 2018 in which the wall street journal first broke the story about the payments to stormy daniels. it was in those months that followed in which michael cohen and donald trump's relationship frayed, and there were two pieces of evidence that the prosecution wants to present to

the juries to show that donald trump was fearful about michael cohen presenting to authorities evidence and testimony against him. and number one of those was actually from robert mueller, a special counsel report in which a trump allied lawyer, robert costello emailed michael cohen the following at the time, quote, sleep well tonight, you have friends in high places. suggesting in a way a direct threat to michael cohen to not steer away from donald trump, and this was determined by the judge here, judge merchan that that at this point in time should not be allowed to be admitted as evidence. the second part of this has to do with a social media post by donald trump just on wednesday, and this could be hitting at the heart of the gag order that in potential request to hold donald trump in contempt for violaing it, this was a social media post from this prior wednesday. the gag order that was placed prevents him from attacking

witnesses as it pertains to their potential testimony as part of this criminal proceeding, and in a social media post just the other day on wednesday, donald trump without naming stormy daniels or michael cohen by name, referred to them as, quote, two sleaze bags who have with their lies and misrepresentations cost our country dearly. now todd blanche pushed back suggesting that this is all part of a side show to try to undercut donald trump's reputation with the jury outside of the actual case and these 34 felony counts against him. judge merchan continues to deliberate these, but suggested that donald trump by posting to his millions of followers was voluntarily making the decision to do that, especially within the last week and that there was little reason for him to believe that that sort of a social media statement should not be allowed or be admissible as evidence in front of a jury. as you said it, they have now entered what could be a 10 to 15

minute break, donald trump, as well as judge merchan left the courtroom. we expect the second half of this courtroom to begin soon as, again, jury selection, which we were expecting to begin relatively in short order this morning has not taken place yet as the prosecution continues to bring forward to the judge what they would like to present as evidence before the jury, in which on each of these points, todd blanche, the attorney for donald trump has been allowed to counter those arguments for the prosecution, and we wait for judge merchan to rule on each points of these evidence, guys. >> vaughn hillyard, let's stay close, and so, chuck, how unusual is it for these issues to be discussed on the day when jury selection is supposed to begin? and then how many issues can you as the defense or the prosecution bring up? >> so i'm going to just steal from temidayo. it's not unusual for these types of issues to be discussed. in my experience, it's very unusual to discuss them on the day that you're trying to pick a

jury. you literally can't do both things at once, jose. and you have all of these folks who have been summoned to jury duty waiting while these issue -- and they're important issues -- are resolved. how many of these types of issues do you have, ancillary issues regarding the admissibility of evidence or whether you can call a particular witness and ask her a particular question happens all the time. but i don't like it happening when jurors are waiting. >> yeah, and the judge absolutely could say i'm going to postpone these because you're not going to be able to ask these questions of the potential jurors. which is the only -- only if you were going to do that would you need, need to decide that while you have people sitting there waiting wondering what's going on and whether they're going to put in that box. the other thing i would just add because i agree with chuck -- that's coming out of a federal court experience too -- where to the extent you have these questions coming up about

evidence, normally the judge will say when the judge will take them up, whether or not they want you to brief them or not, but then they'll make a decision about when on the calendar it's going to happen so that they can prevent people from needlessly coming to the courthouse and say, okay, you don't have to come until noon today instead of 9:00 a.m. or whatever the time. so that kind of accommodation for jurors is actually incredibly important, particularly when you're trying to convince people who are fair minded and are qualified to serve, that they should want to. that's something judges think about a lot. >> quickly, temidayo, based on what we've heard coming out of the courthouse, what do you see as the wins for the prosecution and the defense? >> i think the wins are the admissibility of certain pieces of evidence. if you're the prosecution, you want the information about the access hollywood tape coming in. the wins for the defense are limiting the scope of that admission, so you do not want the video of that -- of those

famous comments coming in, but just the underlying substance. i think that's where you're seeing the balance of the judge trying to go down the middle. he wants the prosecution to be able to have their case but not the evidence to be so prejudicial that the defense can't have a fair trial. >> just thinking about those 1,500 or however many people there, where are they? what are they doing? what do they have access to? and what don't they have access to? >> they're in a waiting room kind of being herded like cattle right now, jose, and to maya's point, you know, typically in jury selection you see jurors try to make up all kinds of reasons that they cannot serve on this jury and the judge will then talk to them to really get to the bottom of, oh, you have your -- you know, you're getting married and you have a big vacation coming up and/or are you really the primary caregiver for this young child. isn't there anybody else that could do this, really, your civic duty which you are required to do. i've seen judges go different

ways on that. judge merchan is not doing himself any favors in terms of getting the jury pool to want to serve on this jury. i do think that this is a little bit different, you know, talking about jury selection as a whole because it's such a high profile case. the big issue here will be those stealth jurors. we haven't talked about it yet. >> what do you mean by stealth jurors. >> that one or two, those one or two jurors that want -- that are going to -- and let's just say it lie in the voir dire process to those questions because they want to fly under the radar and they want to get on that jury because they've already made up their mind one way or the other whether it's a never trumper, he's guilty, i don't even need to hear the evidence or he's a maga supporter until the day he dies, and he's always going to vote for an acquittal. those are the people that this process is meant to ferret out. it's not so much jury selection as deselection. >> is that an easy process to ferret out? >> no, it's not an easy process, especially given the fact in

this day and age we're doing self-reporting by jurors. you can bet trump has a team of jury consultants out there using -- looking at these people's social media accounts to try to see what types of people they are. it's a very complicated process. i had said previously i don't think it's going to last. i don't see the judge pushing this out more than two weeks. i don't know. this is taking a long time. >> we haven't even gotten to the beginning of jury selection which was supposed to start a couple of hours ago. thank you, please stay with us. we're keeping an eye on the trump courthouse, the hallway cam is up and running. he could be speaking at any time. and we'll have an update on our other breaking story this morning, world leaders urging restraint as israel considers its response to iran's retaliatory attack this weekend. you are watching special coverage of donald trump's first criminal trial on msnbc. al tria. >> tech: cracked windshield? schedule with safelite, and we'll come to you to fix it. >> tech vo: this customer was enjoying her morning walk.

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31 past the hour. we are keeping an eye on the manhattan courtroom where court is set to resume any second now in the first criminal trial of a former u.s. president, donald trump. the world watching to see how israel will respond after iran's massive drone and missile attack on saturday. >> israel's war cabinet is meeting right now to discuss potential retaliation as world leaders including president biden urge restraint.

now, of the more than 300 projectiles launched by iran, 99% were intercepted by israeli, american, and other allied forces. u.s. central command says it destroyed more than 80 drones and at least six ballistic missiles from iran and yemen. >> iran's attack was in response to the israeli strike on iran's consulate in syria which killed 12 people including two top commanders, but not top u.s. officials are worried that a potential israeli response could provoke a wider regional war. >> joining us now is nbc's richard engel from jerusalem and retired four-star general barry mccaffrey. richard, fill us in on the latest from this israeli war cabinet meeting? >> reporter: so this is a fast-moving story. as of this morning, it seemed like the u.s. was getting what it wanted, that it had succeeded in convincing prime minister

netanyahu with a call from president biden directly to netanyahu not to respond, to take what happened over the weekend, quote, as a win. the fact that iran fired hundreds of drones and missiles and that nearly all of them failed or were shot down, caused almost no damage in this country. there was a security cabinet meeting a short while ago. we know that there are deep divisions within the security cabinet. we know there are deep divisions within prime minister netanyahu's own government. he's formed a government with some very hard line political leaders in this country. one of whom yesterday said that israel should go crazy against iran in response to iran's attack, and now as that meeting has wrapped up, there are numerous reports both in the u.s. media and in israeli media, and they seem to be quoting each other suggesting that israel is not done yet, that israel might

carry out some sort of response, retaliatory response to iran's retaliatory response, and that it could come very soon, potentially even tonight, and that israel is looking for a way to calibrate its military action in a way that it sends a message to iran, sends a message to the israeli people presumably that israel will respond to this unprecedented attack but without triggering a regional war. how it does that, how it does that without thumbing its nose at president biden and the u.s. if that's possible are still open questions. it seems like an undecided issue, and it seems very fluid, but it did not -- it does not seem as clear as it was several hours ago that the region was potentially going to move on after a very close call.

so we will see what happens tonight. but we have not received any public orders as far as i know telling people to seek shelter or to change their behavior. >> richard engel in jerusalem, thank you so very much. general, iran targeted what they were about to do, and they did so for hours, if not days. but they also launched this huge arsenal of weapons. i mean, more than 300 drones and missiles. how do you see this operation? >> well, of course richard engel makes a major point: the purpose of the biden administration and most of the international community to include saudi arabia, jordan, egypt, and other arab countries is to prevent widening and intensification of the war, and it's also quite correct that, you know, the centcom commander pulled

together a coordinated regional response, primarily the united states, a naval missile destroyers and also air to air fighters. so it was unbelievable successful defense of israel against a attack. but that was not a politically symbolic attack. that wasn't telegraphed. that wasn't slow motion. that was coordinated, put a 350 plus missiles, military targets at the same time. that was 120 ballistic missiles. it's a 12-minute flight time from iran. they were trying to knock out the f-35 fighters in the dsert and cause catastrophic human losses. so i think right now israel is struggling to understand how do we regain deterrence. deterrence has been lost. this is unprecedented, as you pointed out, from a homeland security standpoint direct attack on israel. >> general, how concerned are

you about the u.s. getting dragged into a wader regional conflict? >> well, it's something to be worried about, you know, again the triggering event would probably be hezbollah in the north. if 120,000 hezbollah fighters and a massive number of missiles and rockets attacked israel, they'd be fighting for their existence, and at that point the president would have to decide to what extent are we going to come in and try and prevent the annihilation of the jewish people. but barring that, i think president biden and secretary blinken correctly are going to keep us out of it. now, i'd be probably happier if they were making these signals in private diplomatic discussions with the israelis than from the front lawn of the white house, but nonetheless, biden's going to try and keep us at peace, and he's right to do so. >> general barry mccaffrey, thank you very much.

always great seeing you. we're going to go back to the new york city courthouse where former president trump just walked back into the courtroom after a short break. plus, trump thinks this trial could help his campaign, we'll ask our very own chuck todd what voters think. more of this special coverage after a quick break. stay with us on msnbc.

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in u.s. history of a former president, presidential nominee. court is back in session after a short break. >> we want to get right back out to the courthouse where our national correspondent yasmin vossoughian has been monitoring what's happening there in court. what's the latest, yasmin? >> reporter: they just came back from a 15-minute or so break, guys. i'm going to kind of walk you through what we're hearing from judge merchan. this is kind of going to set the tone for how the trial is going to go from here, over a couple of things. they're going over the scope of michael cohen's testimony, what is admissible, what is not admissible as well, and also the gag order that we all talked about a little bit earlier on. if you remember -- i just want to remind you of what happened in the trump civil fraud case in which donald trump violated his gag order two separate times during the same week. over that period he was fined $15,000. i think there's going to be a question as to what the judge here, judge merchan will decide whether it comes to whether or not donald trump violated that gag order and if there will be penalties for his violation. two other things that are

happening right now is the scope of michael cohen's testimony here. merchan says -- and i quote, i imagine there's going to be an effort to discredit michael cohen, and the minute that's done the door's open. you know the defense's strategy here is to discredit their star witness, michael cohen. that has already been put out there even leading up to this trial. merchan goes on to say that seems to me like that would be very easily opening the door. i really think it's an academic issue, you cannot introduce it in your direct examination. this is merchan telling prosecutors about trump's attacks on michael cohen. you may be able to introduce it in your redirect as well. there's one more thing that steinglass wants to bring up when it comes to michael cohen, and he wants to provide testimony that michael cohen pled guilty, so he wants to elicit testimony will from michael cohen about his guilty plea, and at one point, steinglass says this explains why michael cohen changed his

tune with his guilty plea and the defendant's attacks began the day after his guilty plea, and that is critical, and i will point out that michael cohen is very much like a co-defendant testifying against his co-defendant. so again, we are now, what is it, two hours into this day one of this history in the making ex-president on trial in criminal court. they're supposed to be going over jury selection, and they are still going over what is admissible, what is not, and potential testimony from some very key witnesses, guys. >> yasmin, do we know anything about trump's misdemeanor inside the courtroom? >> reporter: i mean, we are getting some color from inside the courtroom, and i just want to kind of paint a picture for you because there are only, i believe, six pool reporters that are allowed inside the courtroom along with obviously secret service, the defense team, the prosecution team as well, and then there's the overflow team, right? that is where some of our attorneys like lisa rubin, along

with adam reiss, one of the producers that is giving notes is in the overflow room. they're giving us a picture of inside the courtroom. it seemed as if early on in the day he want to be here. he felt as if he were here defending the american people. it seems as if now he is more reserved sitting in that courtroom. he's in that blue suit with his red tie surrounded by his attorneys, susan nicholas and todd blanche, oftentimes getting counsel from his attorneys, getting explanations from his attorneys as to what's going on, but somewhat reserve instead that courtroom right now. >> yasmin vossoughian, thank you very much. really appreciate it. and joining us now nbc news chief political analyst chuck todd, also douglas brinkley, a presidential historian and professor of history at rice university. douglas, how do you see this extraordinary day? i mean, it is a day where we are seeing history in the making. how do you read it? >> well, i preferred the solar

eclipse last week. now we're in a really tawdry case. the fact that we're bringing up all the hush money payments and hearing porn star or what do we call it all over again, i think it matters, though. it's really pointing to, once again, that donald trump's character doesn't exist, that there's a bit of shamelessness, he's misogynistic. he attacks people's families. he knows no bounds, and he tries to behave in an authoritarian manner. can we get an uncontaminated jury pool in the age of social media. people see if you've ever had a friend of a friend who said something to try to stall and delay if you're trump. he also knows -- the former president knows the cameras are on him. that tie we just mentioned could go on sale for a million dollars donation for trump tie from court day. so there is a circus atmosphere to it. but the seriousness is this guy

is the presumptive head of the party of abraham lincoln who for the first time ever we're having to witness this sort of, you know, long, drawn-out series of court cases. so it leaves you wondering why trump doesn't lose voters this coming week, but i doubt he will because people are pretty baked in on how they think about the former president. >> let's talk about the political implications, chuck. there's this article, "the new york times" magazine did really digging into d.a. alvin bragg in this case and his approach, but what's interesting is the democratic strategist james carville is quoted as saying the world is going to stop for this. i mean, the first criminal trial ever of a president. i think if anything the significance of this event is not yet fully appreciated. we've, you know, chuck, covered the ongoing court cases. we've seen trump go in and out of court in some of his civil

trials as well as some of the motions hearings. this is a first, a trial, a criminal trial of a former president. >> well, it's why we shouldn't presume a lot of things. we're presuming a lot about public opinion, reaction, but when you -- as much as we think we know how trump is going to manipulate this process and as much as we have watched trump in the past successfully manipulate processes like this to at least mitigate political damage, not necessarily help himself, i also think we overrate the idea that he's been helping himself. i think it certainly deepens his ties to his political bas, but there's never been any improvement in the slice of voters he's going to need in order to win another term to office, and that's -- and this is sort of the double edged sword of this for this trial. i think the voters that are most persuadable on the president's behave and this trial might be the ones not paying a lot of

attention. now, that's why i think the outcome to this -- i think when you think about all of the different ways trump and his legal team have tried to prevent this case from ever happening. all the different ways they're hoping to poison the jury pool, things like that, i do think a conviction after going through all of that, jumping through all those hoops and hurdles could very well have a bigger impact on public opinion than we give the public credit for. >> and chuck, who would that -- what would that public opinion be? in other words -- and douglas was talking about there's a lot of baked in already, but there are those that may be, you know, influenced one way or another. who are those voters? >> look, it's the it's the same voters who have been vacillating. they may have voted for trump before, but they never liked him. there's sort of the two groups of trump voters and then a third group that he needs to make

voter, the vote biden and trump need. there's one group that loves the guy. there's a second group that votes for him but doesn't like his character or personality, but they have decided to stick by him on this. i think it's always possible they get temporarily moved by this behavior, but i look at this third group of voters. the double haters, the people that don't like either biden or trump. our political system. that's where this can have an impact and if they move one or two points, it's the equivalent of the base moving ten points. so i also think you know we're going to be only seeing small movement but if it's among that group of voters that are the deciders, it's pretty significant. >> how surprised are you this is where we are at? when you look at the long history of this country and we're experiencing something so unprecedented. what kind of new standard, if anything, is this setting for

future presidents? >> i would warn anybody wanting to run to office, don't do what donald trump did. you know, nobody wants to end up in courtrooms with the world watching you for your crimes. innoble first in the first of presidents. there are all the other presidents we've had and then there's donald trump. and only trump, because this is new york city, because of trump tower, he thinks he can manipulate the media spin of what's going on here because he's known it for so long. i'm not sure he's going to win the public relations battle, whatever's going on. >> you think donald trump's just a one off so this situation is a one off? >> i think of melania. anyone who's married. do you want your spouse to have having hush moneys and dealing in the realm of pornography and this continuation of gross

misogyny or worse? no. i don't think that's a message that that's how you succeed in politics, but trump rode a wave on his personality. he's continuing to really right now fight for july 15th, milwaukee. if he can jump around through all this noise, get to his convention, do the bombing trump speech, be on television, he hopes he can put whatever this verdict is behind him. >> just thinking how much of the world has dealt with leaders that they have in different times and for different reasons taken through the judicial process. this is a first for the united states. it has not been a first and we've seen it from you know, peru to brazil to italy. there are so many instances in which leaders have been taken but for this issue, very rare. >> you know the surprising part is what dr. king recognized when he was arrested in birmingham. where is the clergy of america?

where are the people that have a moral standard in ethics? why are they outraged? what king asked when he was in jail when asked why aren't more americans like chuck was saying, i can't do trump. i'm going to vote for somebody else. i'll write in. i saw, dick cheney. i don't think this is a vote winner whatever transpires for trump, but i'm not sure this is going to dent him to the you know, to make him sort of a lesser candidate or not be the party's nominee on july 15th. >> thank you both. so much. appreciate the conversation. up next, we are just ten days away now from the supreme court taking up trump's argument that he is immune from criminal prosecution. >> will that have any bearing on the hush money trial? more of our special coverage after a short break on msnbc. l e after a short break on msnbc hey! asthma's got you going through it? grab nucala for fewer asthma attacks.

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56 past the hour. we are continuing to cover the historic moment. >> the first criminal trial by a

former u.s. president getting underway. we are still waiting for the start of jury selection and we're back with two of our lawyers. >> maya, let's start with your takeaway this morning. >> pretty good day for the people of the state of new york. for the prosecutors. balanced judge. lots of evidence. we know it's going to come in now and at the end of the day, it's all going to be about who's selected in this next couple of weeks to be on that jury. >> your top takeaways, caroline? >> i think we're seeing there's some pretty thorny issues here. it's a misdemeanor, however, they're being kicked up to felonies with the addition of the secondary crime chuck was talking about. that's why we're having so many fights over what can and cannot come in. it's very salacious. the judge is doing a good job

weighing inflammatory, how much it's going to prejudice this defendant. >> so the kind of big picture, the difference and why the prosecution talked about misdemeanors an felonies, secondary crime. those are issues that kind of confuse people who aren't really in the details of it. >> it can be very confusing. it's a new york state statute. it says you falsify business records because you have an intent. you want to conceal something else that is a crime. >> that's where it goes from misdemeanor to felony. >> and that's why donald trump's state of mind is so important in this case and why a lot of the discussion we're hearing today is about what evidence for the prosecution they believe will help, not the only evidence, but help establish that intent. but you don't have to be guilty of actually underlying fraud.

you just have to have the intent and enough evidence of that intent because in new york state, even if you're acquitted of election interference, of a campaign finance violation, you could still be guilty of a felony under this new york state statute. >> we're talking a six to eight-week trial here. that's been the estimate we've been given by experts and people close to this case. so we may not have a verdict in a couple of weeks when the supreme court does those arguments and hears the cases and his claim about presidential immunity when it relates to the federal election interference case. that being said, could what happen in those arguments have any impact on this trial? we may still be this jury selection. >> about some evidence in this trial the defense didn't want it to come in and hinge on this presidential immunity claim. and that had to do with tweets

while this office. this is a unique case because it's a state prosecution. the former president, if he becomes a president again, cannot pardon himself for this potential conviction. there are many reasons why this case is different for better or for worse. it's the one that is going first and people have different feelings about that. i don't think it's the most important but you know, it is what it is. >> i'll leave it there, ladies, as we wrap up our coverage and hand off to our colleagues. thank you so much. >> that wraps up the hour for us. thank you for the privilege of your time. stay with us all day long. special coverage tonight, ari and dean break down the latest in this case. that begins at 6:00 p.m. eastern. but first, andrea mitchell, chris